S3 E1 - Les Filles De La Construction- Making Renovations Stress-Free

In this first episode of Between Bricks and Binders, we welcome Marie-France, founder of Les Filles de la Construction. She shares her journey from a first-time renovator to building a network that empowers homeowners with the right knowledge and tools for their renovation and construction projects. We discuss how to choose the right contractor, avoid costly mistakes, and navigate the complexities of a renovation with confidence. A must-listen for anyone planning a home project!

Fréderique (00:09)

Welcome to our first episode of Between Bricks and Binders, where our new concept, we're talking about the theory and how we put that theory into practice. And who better to have than Marie-France from the company Les filles de la Construction. Welcome, Marie-France.

Marie-France (00:27)

Hi. Thank you so much for having me.

Fréderique (00:29)

It's my pleasure. Marie- France, tell us a little bit, what is Les Filles De La Construction?

Marie-France (00:33)

For sure. Les Filles de la Construction is a network whose goal is to support all homeowners in order to help them make

Fréderique (00:45)

new constructions?

Marie-France (00:46)

Okay, as you can all tell, English is not my first language.

Fréderique (00:49)

You're doing great.

Marie-France (00:49)

Thank you. I've just never actually talked about my business in English, and I'm like, What are the words like renovation, new constructions? Okay, so our goal is to help homeowners renovate their homes or build new constructions and to provide them with all the tools they need so that they can do that with confidence and they are able to find the right contractors to help them, the right professionals to help them. We also provide them with the platform where they can ask all their questions to professionals at all times so that they're never stuck by themselves with like, Oh my God, I don't know what to do. I don't know if I was given the right information or anything like this. We also gave supplier discounts

Fréderique (01:34)

In general, for all renovations.

Marie-France (01:36)

In general, for all renovations to our customers so that they are able to get big contractor prices, even though they are small homeowners. That's our goal, basically.

Fréderique (01:48)

Awesome. Helping homeowners make a great project within the renovations, new constructions. Awesome. It's nice because it fits with our concept, which is you provide the theory for the practice of the actual project.

Marie-France (02:00)

Exactly.

Fréderique (02:01)

But that's not how you started. You started with the practice, right? Tell me a little bit about what happened with your project, your first try.

Fréderique (02:10)

Yeah, so we can say that, that I started with the practice. Something really important to know is that I'm really, really new to the construction industry. I have no background whatsoever in construction when I started my first renovation project in 2019. And I thought it was getting into something fun where I was Renovate the kitchen or

Fréderique (02:32)

Decore.

Marie-France (02:32)

Decore.

Fréderique (02:33)

Choose the colors.

Marie-France (02:33)

I wanted to choose the ceramic so badly. I thought this was what you do during a construction project. So I purchased a plex with my husband, and we didn't even know what to look for. So when we purchased the plex, it had such a beautiful lighting and beautiful moldings. I needed to have that plex. That's how it went.

Marie-France (02:53)

But how was the foundation, right?

Fréderique (02:55)

Oh, yeah. That's the question. So the foundation needed to be changed. Small detail. So we had to raise the building 10 feet in the air, remove the foundation, add a new... Well, like

Fréderique (03:08)

Structure?

Marie-France (03:08)

Well, yeah, the structure, but we literally added a floor underneath the house, and we put the I was back down. That all happened during COVID. Entrepreneurs were ghosting me. Every time someone was telling me something, someone else was telling me something else, it's just really hard to get entrepreneurs to call me back. And when they did, often they were I felt like it was being treated as a little girl who didn't know what she was doing. To be fair, I really didn't know what I was doing.

Fréderique (03:38)

So you were, but...

Marie-France (03:39)

Yeah, but still.

Fréderique (03:40)

That's okay.

Marie-France (03:41)

And I mean, it's honestly the most stressful moment of my life. I felt like I was not competent enough to be doing that. I felt like I didn't have the right training. I felt like I didn't have the right information, and I felt truly alone in that. That's What like, brought me to start Les filles de la construction afterwards, like to really bring together women, professional women, who could help other women through their projects so that no one would feel alone in their project the way I did, and so that they would not spend the money I did on stupid mistakes and bad entrepreneurs and doing the work again because you trusted the wrong person and all of that. That happens very often when you don't know the industry, when you don't know what to ask, when you don't know who to trust when you don't know the right questions to ask, because you can be the right person, but have the wrong information, or you could also give the person you're working with the wrong information so that he's not doing what you want. So construction... I was about to say it's complex. Construction is not complex when you know how it works. It's just literally impossible when you don't know how it works. And it wasn't that state.

Fréderique (04:58)

Because there's so many moving parts, so many things change. It's like when they're building their quotes in the beginning, you can't get an exact price until you actually get into the renovation because there's so many things that will change during the project.

Marie-France (05:13)

Something I tell our members very often is that we often think of our construction project as something that's really very linear. I remember thinking that too. But construction project goes in a circle.

Fréderique (05:29)

Literally.

Marie-France (05:29)

Literally. So The moment you understand that, the better it is. I remember people asking me, Okay, so do you call an architect first or an entrepreneur first? And stuff. And I'm like, Okay. The way you do it is you talk to an architect first. You get a

Fréderique (05:43)

General

Marie-France (05:44)

Very, very general draft. You don't spend money on it. Then you go to an entrepreneur with that draft, and you start discussing that draft with the entrepreneur. You make changes, you discuss what's expensive, what's not expensive, what can be changed, what can be changed, and all of that. Then you go back to the drawing table and you start over. You do that many, many times over. That's even before the project has started. But even when the project starts, there's what should happen, as you mentioned, the theory. Then there's like, Oh, okay. In theory, the plumber will go before the electrician But what happens when the plumber doesn't show up and the electrician is set up for tomorrow? Would you cancel the electrician or do you just say, Okay, you do it like that, and then I will work around it with the plumber after? There's like, in theory, it's probably a bit better to have the plumber first and practice if the plumber is not available first, you do it after.

Fréderique (06:36)

It just doesn't happen.

Marie-France (06:37)

Well, yeah. So that type of thing. But as someone who works in construction, we learn what is important that goes in certain steps and what can be changed. But for clients who look at it, they're like, Well, I remember being like, That's how it's supposed to happen instead.

Fréderique (06:57)

Why is it not happening like this?

Marie-France (07:00)

Sometimes I'd be like, Why is it not happening like this? The entrepreneur would tell me, Don't worry about it. I know what I'm doing. It'd be wrong. I'd be like, Ah.

Fréderique (07:10)

Exactly. It's like, Do you trust that person that's telling you this this time, or should you not?

Marie-France (07:17)

That's so tricky, right?

Fréderique (07:19)

My first question to you actually is, contractors, how do you know if you should trust them or not?

Marie-France (07:26)

My God. That's the main question, right? Because well, as you know, and as probably most people listening here know, one of the challenges in Quebec is that there's almost no barriers to the construction industry. Anyone who has... Anyone who wants to can start working on construction, just get their RVQ license and get started. You have everything in the market. You have really good entrepreneurs who care about their projects, who care about their clients, and who make amazing projects. A bunch of entrepreneurs literally saved my life during my project because I've seen both. I've seen the worst and the best. I'm so grateful for some of the entrepreneurs we worked with. Then some entrepreneurs really have no business. As well, being in business.

Fréderique (08:16)

They have a business. They shouldn't be.

Marie-France (08:18)

They shouldn't be. I guess that when you don't know anything about construction, it's so hard to tell whenever someone is just a good talker or when someone's actually good at what they do. Of course, going with references is often helpful. But really, I find that the best way to find the entrepreneurs is to ask a lot of questions and to discuss the project and not bring in the price first in the discussion.

Fréderique (08:51)

Yeah, definitely.

Marie-France (08:52)

To really get to know the entrepreneur, understand how he works, understand what his communication style is, understand Understand how he manages his projects. Understand what is important to him, what he likes in clients, what he doesn't like in clients, all of that. And also understand, well, the project management part is a really important part of it. Also, who does he work with? That's a great question. Is he used to work on that type of project or is it a new type of project for him? All really good questions. How long has he be doing those projects? And okay, will he be there by himself or will he send someone who has no experience? That's a bunch of things.

Fréderique (09:31)

That's a valid point. Just to mention, I've heard that before where someone came to my house, he was amazing. He sold me the project. It was amazing. And then someone else came to do the work, and it wasn't him, and it wasn't the same level because that happens.

Marie-France (09:48)

It does happen.

Fréderique (09:49)

Maybe to, because most of our listeners are contractors, to set that expectation. If you're going to have someone else go on the job site, it's so, so, so important to reassure the client who's going to be there because they need to know. In all honesty, if you set your expectations, then the project is going to go way smoother.

Marie-France (10:09)

Yeah, well, exactly. We work almost exclusively with clients who work with contractors, and some have great experiences, some have really bad experiences, and some have just normal experiences. I'd say that there's... Well, a big part of it is on the client, to communicate properly what what they want and what they need. I think this is something that's pretty important. Then again, as a contractor, as an entrepreneur, you can ask the right questions so that the clients will tell you that. It's really important to have that discussion upfront. As a professional, ideally, it would come from the entrepreneur who would ask the questions to understand what are the priorities of the client, what the client wants. Is the client the right client for them and vice versa? That's always a big part, but most of the problems afterwards come from a lack of communication.

Fréderique (11:07)

Like most life problems, right?

Marie-France (11:09)

Most life problems.

Fréderique (11:10)

Lack of communication because you're getting into a relationship with your contractor.

Marie-France (11:15)

It's almost like getting married.

Fréderique (11:16)

Yeah, same thing.

Marie-France (11:18)

Managing expectations is so important. Then when you discussed that upfront, maybe the other person is like, Okay, I'm fine with that, or I'm not fine with that, and that's okay. If you take a client and you're going to be there, you know you're going to be there like two days a week because you have many contracts at the same time, and it's going to take like two months to finish a project. That's perfectly fine, by the way, as long as you tell it to your client. The client will know, Look, That's a project that takes, I don't know, approximately 10 days of work. But the way I work, I have a team available approximately two days a week, and this and that. Or again, so this is my company. I have someone I trust who's going to be there with the team, but I'm really there. But you can explain how you manage the client, what you do, and this and that. As long as it's set and it's upfront, it really puts a client at ease and it helps a client trust you and understand how you work. I think something that happens very often is that entrepreneurs will find, They won't understand. It's too complicated. It goes into detail.

Fréderique (12:28)

They underestimate, right?

Marie-France (12:29)

Most clients are intelligent people in the same way you are. I think that underestimating the intelligence of your contractor or of your client and their capacity to understand your point of view is bring no one nowhere.

Fréderique (12:46)

No one's winning.

Marie-France (12:47)

No one's winning. At the end of the day, for everyone to win, because that's your goal, companies who work, and I believe construction companies that will stay in business through time are companies who are able to really help their clients achieve their goals while also are achieving their own goals, right?

Fréderique (13:08)

Because like you said, it's a referencing business. So if the client is happy and satisfied

Marie-France (13:15)

Exactly.

Fréderique (13:15)

They will reference you five times more, 10 times more than if they're not satisfied. If they're not satisfied, they'll badmouth you, and that's not good.

Marie-France (13:23)

And a client will never say, Oh, call that company. I had a really good price, but the work was shit.

Fréderique (13:30)

Yeah. No, no, no. He was really good. I understood. Someone who understand something that they didn't understand before and their learning loves it. People love to learn things. So if they learn something through you, they're going to be over the moon.

Marie-France (13:47)

We have to understand also that most clients don't spend their days on construction side, have no other construction experience before their project. We need to explain to them what will make a difference in their project. Something that I learned through that, and everyone will say, Of course, of course. But finishing work is so much work, and it's so much time. And small details sometimes take so much time. Sometimes I wish an entrepreneur would have told me, Oh, you know, installing that type of ceramic will cost four times more money than if you would go with the standard size of ceramic. I would like that information.

Fréderique (14:33)

Labor time is money.

Marie-France (14:35)

Exactly. But instead of just telling me, Oh, your bathroom is going to cost $35,000, I'd like someone to tell me, Look, with all those details, it would be around that price. But if you change that, that, that, and that, we can work within that budget. Then you can choose, right? Sometimes some clients are willing to pay the extra money for what you're asking exactly. Some other clients will be like, Oh, you know what? I like that, but it's not a priority for me. So I will put that in.

Fréderique (15:08)

Yeah, and to that point, if that's communicated while it happens or before it happens, Preferably. The client won't get any bad surprises in the end.

Marie-France (15:18)

No.

Fréderique (15:19)

And you won't feel embarrassed about putting it on your bill because you mentioned it, the client either said yes or no, but you went with the decision.

Marie-France (15:28)

Exactly.

Fréderique (15:29)

So everybody Everybody wins in that situation.

Marie-France (15:31)

100 %. And something I see a lot, too, is that clients will tell me, entrepreneurs really want to know my budget. They really want me to tell them my budget. Not for everyone, but for most clients, the budget is flexible, and what they're looking for is good quality price. What I recommend is always to discuss with the entrepreneur and choose the entrepreneur not based on price, and afterwards, discuss pricing. I I think it should probably go both ways for entrepreneurs. I understand you don't want to lose your time with clients that really don't have the budget to hire them, but really understand what the client needs before discussing pricing, usually creates a stronger bond than just going with like, Oh, I'm giving you a price, and then, We didn't discuss this, this, this, and that, and the client chose you for the price, and then what he wants has nothing to do with what you were pricing. Something that happens a lot also in construction. And I know that it frustrates everyone, especially good entrepreneurs that put a lot of care into their...

Fréderique (16:40)

Quotes.

Marie-France (16:41)

Quotes. I was like, this is not the word. But I know it really frustrating is good entrepreneurs is, well, entrepreneurs who put very low price in order to get the project and then bump up the prices.

Fréderique (16:54)

Nobody wants that.

Marie-France (16:55)

No, nobody wants that. You don't want that. You will have a bad relationship with your client. It will go badly. You won't get recommended. There's a chance a client will not want to pay you at the end because you will be so frustrated. Also, you can really be missing up people's lives. Because Let's say an entrepreneur tells you, Oh, yeah, I'll do that project for $200,000, and then after $200,000, you've destroyed a home and put up some walls and then nothing else done and you don't have any more budget. It's terrible on someone's life, on their relationship, on their kids, on everything.

Fréderique (17:36)

The finance, the everything.

Marie-France (17:37)

It's super difficult. So please don't do that. Ask the right questions of your clients, understand what the client needs. Bring the client to think about maybe other options for renovating that are cheaper if they don't have the budget. Discuss with them what costs money. What makes the project more expensive? What would make the project less expensive? What are the other options?

Fréderique (18:01)

Taking the time to do that, I think it is super, super important because it's going to save you time in the long run. You think it's wasting time and it's wasting money, but it's actually not. It just saves you so much time, so much frustration to just really define what the project is from the get-go and to ask those right questions because contractors are the experts.

Marie-France (18:22)

They've done this

Fréderique (18:23)

over and over and over, and they know they should be asking the right questions. If you're not sure, write them down on a paper. Always have the same questions, the same form filled out for your customers, and find out what the needs are before.

Marie-France (18:36)

Exactly. Something that entrepreneurs usually really like from our members is that... I've worked with a few entrepreneurs that also work with our members, and they tell me, Oh, my God, we know within five minutes that they went through your trainings because they know what they're talking about, and they're so clear about what they want. It makes them really easy clients. Our goal is to educate clients so that they're better clients for you so that they understand your job, so that they understand what takes you time, what doesn't, how they can help you help them, basically. That's what we do. But because not all clients know us or go through our training. I feel like contractors should definitely be also educating their clients and helping the clients by asking them the right questions. I know it's complex. I know you don't want to spend time and energy with clients that will possibly not give you the contract at the end. Something that I've been doing, for instance, when I need a quote for something I know I will not be doing quickly, and I will probably not be giving the contract to contractor, is that I usually ask for a broad estimate being like, Can I please just have a broad estimate? I won't hold you onto that ever. If I need a specific quote, can I pay you? Can I pay your time so that you make a really good quote that will help me make decisions after. I would personally rather always pay my entrepreneurs for their quotes for their time, basically. And afterwards, no, I'm not being charged for all the time they spend coding for free other people that didn't give them the contract. I'm just putting it out there because we're talking to entrepreneurs, but I don't do that often. But that could be a way to do. Just give a broad estimate telling people that with the amount of information and time you have

Fréderique (20:31)

no guarantees

Marie-France (20:32)

no guarantee at all. You feel like this is a project within 200 and 300,000. Please don't put $237,000 because then the client will think it's an actual price, something like that. But it gives you an idea of this

Fréderique (20:47)

Give a range.

Marie-France (20:48)

A range. Then, okay, you want an actual quote, depending on the project, it's going to take 5, 8, 10 hours. That's the rate or that's the price for the quote. I know that's not how it works at the moment in Quebec, but I feel like it would really help both sides.

Fréderique (21:08)

Yeah, absolutely.

Marie-France (21:09)

So entrepreneurs would not feel like they're losing their time, and clients would actually get quotes that they can trust.

Fréderique (21:17)

This was Between Bricks and Binders with Marie-France from Les filles de la Construction. Thank you so much for being with us. Follow us and subscribe to your preferred podcast platform.