S1 E4 - Demco - Project management

This week on Between Bricks and Binders, we dive into project management in renovations. Frédérique shares her event planning experience and the essential principles behind efficient project structuring. Then, we welcome Guy from Demco, a project manager with over 25 years of experience in the construction industry. He explains the day-to-day realities, how to manage the unexpected, and the difference between residential and commercial project management. A practical and insightful conversation for entrepreneurs in the field!

[00:00:08.820] - Ronaldo

So welcome back, everyone, to a new episode of Between Bricks and Binders. I'm your host, Ronaldo Zepher from Admissis.

[00:00:18.360] - Frédérique

And I'm Frederique from Reno Quotes.

[00:00:20.710] - Ronaldo

And today we have an interesting subject where we're talking about project management. And I do think that there's someone around that has types of experience in the matter.

[00:00:32.200] - Frédérique

A little bit. Just a little bit.

[00:00:33.830] - Ronaldo

A little bit. Perfect. So instead of going and trying to find somebody external, I thought maybe we could start by asking you a few questions since you know a little bit.

[00:00:45.550] - Frédérique

Works for me. We can talk about theory. Yep.

[00:00:47.940] - Ronaldo

Perfect. So how about I ask the simplest question there is, yet the most complicated one, what exactly is project management?

[00:00:57.700] - Frédérique

So project management is taking a project, separating into different buckets of steps. So we have the initiation phase, which is the idea of it, the planning phase, the execution. Then you have monitoring control, so like reporting and stuff, and then the closing of the project. So you break down a project to make it better next time. So you break it down so you can reproduce it in a better way. So optimizing your project every time you go.

[00:01:27.120] - Ronaldo

Okay. Project optimization. And when you break break it down, those different steps that you break it down into, do you think there is one that is more important than the others?

[00:01:37.660] - Frédérique

Yes, definitely. And it won't surprise you, it's planning. Planning is super important. And it's as important to think about the number of time that you need to spend on planning. Sometimes you need to spend more time, sometimes you need to spend less. It's one of the things that we don't talk about as much. People think you need to plan more, plan more, plan more. But at some point, when you're at a certain percentage of you think this is going to work, you can go ahead and move forward. So staying in the planning phase too long is not a good idea either.

[00:02:08.730] - Ronaldo

And how much does planning or not planning, how much does that affect the bottom line at the end of the day?

[00:02:18.720] - Frédérique

Well, if you're planning properly, you know how much time it's going to take, how much it's going to cost, and how many people you need. So it's kind of essential.

[00:02:27.840] - Ronaldo

Definitely. Okay. And you did say that you did some project management. It wasn't in the construction business.

[00:02:36.210] - Frédérique

No.

[00:02:36.370] - Ronaldo

So what were some projects that you had to manage, and how did it go for you?

[00:02:41.830] - Frédérique

Well, when I did my certification, I was working at TecoBlock in the marketing department, and I was managing events. So one of the things in project management, actually, the course that I was doing, it was a waterfall. So it's very linear. Obviously, events do not work in a linear format. There's a lot of random stuff that happens that you need to work with. So it was adapting that theory into the practice of event planning. Yeah, so let's That's how that went.

[00:03:16.000] - Ronaldo

Pretty interesting because you're saying that when you're planning for events, a lot of random things happen, as you say. That portion of unexpected reminds me of the construction world So it brings me to the whole question of, do you think it would benefit construction workers to actually have either knowledge of project planning or having someone to do that on their behalf?

[00:03:46.530] - Frédérique

That's a great question because most times, contractors don't actually have the time to do it, but it is a super important factor if you want to grow your business. And I think we were talking about this earlier, how when you're planning resources, sometimes you forget to calculate your own hours. My time is free time when you're a contractor. So it's very, very important to calculate those hours because it gives you the full just cost of your project as much as the number of hours from your resources, but the cost of your materials, and the number of time, because time is money, right? We know that. And those things need to be calculated. And if you don't know those metrics in your projects, then you don't actually know how much you should be quoting for.

[00:04:33.250] - Ronaldo

Everything that has to do with the unexpected, right? Planning for extras or for just-in-cases. Who should be paying for those? Should the contractor or the project manager, should he be the one that takes ownership of these charges, or should those charges be reflected in the billing for whoever the service is rendered to?

[00:05:02.900] - Frédérique

You definitely need to have a miscellaneous cost section in your planning. But the better you are at project management, the more you can spread that cost. So if you know you're going to do 25 projects, you do 10 of those are flooring, and five of those are always the same type of flooring, well, you know that you can always have a buffer of material because you can reuse it in other situations. Maybe flooring wasn't a good example because there's too many types. But any other materials that you know you're going to be using multiple times over in the year, you can get extras of because you know you're going to be reusing them. So the better you plan on those types of things, the better you can react. Because it's the same thing as if you don't order enough material for a project, then you might have some time that you have to wait. And then time is money and also satisfaction. Customer satisfaction. If they have to wait for a new product again, they won't be happy. They won't necessarily want to wait, or they won't necessarily want to deal with you again because you weren't ready for their project. So it's important to take those into consideration.

[00:06:16.600] - Ronaldo

And what does one do when they took time to plan, but things don't go according to plan?

[00:06:24.560] - Frédérique

It's all about finding solutions. I think that most contractors are generally pretty quick on their feet. So I feel like they're the type of people who can react pretty well. And it's also important to set expectations. If you know that things might or could happen, make sure that your customer knows ahead of time. If you do set that expectation, then it's a lot easier to handle when you have to announce it.

[00:06:49.880] - Ronaldo

And we were talking earlier about the importance of documenting things as you go along, right? And I think that could work pretty well, especially when you're talking about event planning and things of that nature. But I was thinking, for a contractor that's on a roof or that's with the hammer, right? I'm trying to see, is that something that's easy for them to just keep

[00:07:16.040] - Frédérique

How is he documenting?

[00:07:17.030] - Ronaldo

How is he documenting? I'm not saying that it's impossible for them to do, but they're probably not doing it as often as, for example, someone that in the event business. So do you think it would be something that's good for them to actually have someone dedicated to that?

[00:07:38.950] - Frédérique

It's a two-part answer, if you will. The contractor, as is, is really well placed to know what should be documented in terms of pricing people time because he's well trained on the subject. But also, he doesn't have the time necessarily. So it depends on what his forte is, I would assume. If it's someone who's really good at admin work, which is rarely the case, but sometimes he or she might have a ease of planning and documenting. If not, then hiring someone is definitely a valid option.

[00:08:22.900] - Ronaldo

And do you think the hiring process should happen once he has larger projects or bigger amount, or once he has many projects lined up? Because there's two different things, right? Am I now starting to attack projects that are bigger, longer, and that are probably more complex? Or is it, okay, now I'm starting to get a lot of smaller jobs or both. When do you think I should start thinking about

[00:08:51.940] - Frédérique

I guess it depends on the objectives. Because some contractors are very happy with just four or five projects a year, one crew, and that's it, and that's enough, and it's big projects, and that's okay. And then they can take the time to document and plan and all of that stuff. But some contractors might want to have multiple crews. If you start having multiple crews, then that might be when you need project managers. And it's great because this is actually a great segue to our next segment, which is we are meeting with a project manager named Guy from Demco, and he's actually part of one the crews, which is a good time to start having project management because they can refer to those project managers for that information about the project.

[00:09:39.430] - Ronaldo

For the questions. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's definitely a good thing that you have that conversation with Guy. And yeah, I think we should just go to that segment and continue right after.

[00:09:50.610] - Frédérique

All right. Let's have a listen.

[00:09:51.930] - Ronaldo

Let's listen.

[00:09:53.280] - Frédérique

So welcome to another episode of Bricks and Binders. Today, we have Guy from Demco, who's a project manager on JobSight. So welcome, Guy.

[00:10:02.030] - Guy

Hi thank you. Welcome.

[00:10:03.400] - Frédérique

Thank you for being here. So, Guy, tell me a little bit about what you do, how you got there, and how you got to Demco today.

[00:10:11.570] - Guy

Yeah. So first of all, I have more than 25 years of experience. I started as a drafter in building, designer. So I studied and I put things on plans. After, I've been an assistant project manager at the University of McGill, and then project manager with private contractors. And after, I put my pouch. I wanted to do the I didn't want to sit down and I want to try what's the executing the job.

[00:10:52.490] - Frédérique

So the other side of the job. Instead of putting things into play, you wanted to see what the doing the was.

[00:11:00.830] - Guy

Yeah. Then it's there that I found out that what you put on plans, not necessarily what is on the site, and what you say is not what you get.

[00:11:12.720] - Frédérique

Yeah, for sure. Definitely. Especially when it comes to residential housing, right?

[00:11:19.130] - Guy

Exactly. Yeah. So commercially, it was quite easy because all the measurements been done by professionals, and there's a lot of surveillance, survey. A lot of people are on site to check everything out. And so they can tell you that right away if there's any change that has to be done.

[00:11:45.030] - Frédérique

Yeah, there's more professionals at different levels, like architects, engineers. There's multiple people that look at the measurements and the calculations and make sure everything is very square.

[00:11:55.630] - Guy

Absolutely, yeah. And in the residential, the difference is that you're all by yourself, usually. There's no plan, there's no architect, no engineers, no project manager also. It depends. And so you're only you and the client. And the client doesn't know how to make plans, doesn't know anything.

[00:12:17.120] - Frédérique

Which is normal.

[00:12:17.700] - Guy

Which is normal. So you just want to have a bathroom, a brand new bathroom with ceramic tiles and jibrock, a new bath, whatever, so on. So when comes to time to remove the jips, for example, you don't know what's going to be behind. So you have to tell in advance, Listen, we don't know what's going to be behind. We have to check. Also, when you do the survey, you're not necessarily know behind the desk or behind some furniture what was there. So when it comes time to do the renovation, there's a lot of questions before that you have to ask. So communication is one of the key in project management. Takes a lot of notes and also inform the client on how the work is going to be done, how the steps are going to be managed.

[00:13:21.660] - Frédérique

Where you can expect to review the quote if need be, right? Because if you, let's open up the the wall, and then we're going to be able to evaluate what's needed.

[00:13:33.570] - Guy

Exactly. We can do a little checkup. We can do a little opening and see what's the composition of the wall. So the client know already before getting the quotes, what he's going to expect, what should he expect. But in general, for a $50,000 project, we should expect between $5,000 and $7,000 of margin.

[00:14:04.120] - Frédérique

So like a 10%, right?

[00:14:06.540] - Guy

Yeah, 10-ish, I would say, because there's always something. There's always something. Even if you have If you have plans from the city, for example, you don't know what the actual entrepreneur or the contractor put behind the wall, and the modification along the time. So if the house has been in '70s, you don't know. We're in 2025, so we don't know what's

[00:14:36.150] - Frédérique

No. I mean, you could have had multiple owners, and owners can make changes to their homes, and they don't necessarily put it in the plans that are at the city, right?

[00:14:46.460] - Guy

Multiple. Multiple gips. Two layers of gips or two layers of ceramic. You don't know.

[00:14:54.640] - Frédérique

It's like the flooring, right? So you have the cement, then you have your installation, then you have some wood floors, then you have another layer of wood floors, then you have carpet, then you have another layer.

[00:15:08.690] - Guy

That's it.

[00:15:09.460] - Frédérique

I've seen those before.

[00:15:10.540] - Guy

Absolutely. And then you cannot expect that.

[00:15:13.470] - Frédérique

No.

[00:15:13.780] - Guy

Right away. And all the floor has been done like 10 years ago. It all hard wood floor all the way. But underneath, you don't know. You might find carpet, you might find ceramic, you don't know what's going to find.

[00:15:30.670] - Frédérique

Damage flooring.

[00:15:31.240] - Guy

Damage flooring, yeah. The structural damage also.

[00:15:34.500] - Frédérique

So it's good to set the expectations for the customers, give them a timeline on when to expect those surprises, maybe.

[00:15:43.300] - Guy

Also in advance. When it comes time to give the quote, you have to tell them that you should expect a certain amount first, and also tell them where the expectation should be So behind the wall or the plumbing system, for example, because we didn't open the wall yet, so you don't know how the plumbing was made. Is there a vent? Is there a trap? Is there for the shower, for example, because the ceiling underneath is closed. So all the things that you cannot do or electrically, there's a lot of junction box, hide it behind walls that you can find a lot of time. So you have rewire all the way from the panel to the new outlet, for example.

[00:16:37.290] - Frédérique

And that's an advantage of having a project manager on site is when those surprises arise, at leastyou have someone that can help you plan the next step and have the job site still work in the timeline, right?

[00:16:53.050] - Guy

Absolutely. So for example, in Sorel, we do a PAD, So it's an adaptation.

[00:17:01.930] - Frédérique

Home adaptation, yeah.

[00:17:03.060] - Guy

Yeah, home adaptation. And we have more people involved into this because... So the government is involved, for example. There's an ergonomist also involved in that. And so we love to manage this, a project manager, to have a project manager to manage this because the people on site, they don't know the height of the bar, for example, for the people to help it raise, get up, or the size of the shower, why it's so big.

[00:17:43.670] - Frédérique

All the norms, working with all the specialists.

[00:17:48.340] - Guy

Absolutely. So this is one of the key we're developing right now, one of the strengths that the Demco is developing right now is this, because it There's a lot of people that are demanding for adaptation in the housing. The people also getting older and older. It's another kind of adaptation. So this is one of our strengths right now, and we have many field right now, many sites, job sites that we are doing this right now.

[00:18:23.790] - Frédérique

And the fact that Demco has project managers, and you have more than one, right? I don't know how many you guys are, but I know that you have more than one, and that allows you to be able to go into that field and to be able to manage those job sites that are more complex a little bit.

[00:18:41.490] - Guy

Exactly. They're treated like a commercial job, but with residential's problem.

[00:18:48.510] - Frédérique

Yeah, okay. So it's all the good stuff, right?

[00:18:51.510] - Guy

Right. The fun stuff. The fun stuff.

[00:18:54.580] - Frédérique

Well for a project manager, it's a nice challenge. It's fun.

[00:18:57.420] - Guy

Exactly. Because otherwise, with commercial jobs, It's always the same routine. And the base-building is base-building. And most of the walls are not structural because a commercial building doesn't have structural walls. So it's pretty easy to tear down walls and put up. And then all the commercial are concrete floor, usually. So it's pretty easy. You tear up the actual floor and you put a new one, and you know what going to expect underneath.

[00:19:31.280] - Frédérique

So there's no surprises, no fun.

[00:19:33.330] - Guy

Less. For me, for our company, yes. This is that we would like.

[00:19:39.470] - Frédérique

Because you're equipped for it, and that works for you.

[00:19:42.430] - Guy

Experience also. There's a lot of experience behind that. Because when we do a renovation and you're new into that field, home renovation, you might come into challenge that you don't know what to do, and you have to call people, professionals, and you're going to be stuck, you're going to lose some days.

[00:20:05.360] - Frédérique

Yeah, and time is money.

[00:20:07.190] - Guy

Time is money, absolutely, especially when you knew in the field in construction as a general contractor. So as a project manager, it's good to know those things and have experience in job sites also. So I do carpentry, I do a lot of things. I did many, many years of site constructions before I was a project manager, but I didn't know what I was saying at all. I was saying things that I wasn't planned, and this was the Bible.

[00:20:44.320] - Frédérique

That's what a lot of contractors expect from project managers. They're like, They don't know. I know better. Is that something that you face on a day-to-day basis, or is that not your reality?

[00:20:58.510] - Guy

For me, it's not my reality but yes, in the past, because I used to manage commercial job sites, I was facing to this. But generally speaking, the entrepreneur, the contractor, does know that we don't know.

[00:21:17.660] - Frédérique

Yeah, okay.

[00:21:18.500] - Guy

So they are kind. And most of the contractor, I cannot say for today, but in the 15 years ago, I would say, They were kind. They were, generally speaking, well. They were on nerves. They were not yelling at you.

[00:21:37.200] - Frédérique

There was respect.

[00:21:38.790] - Guy

A lot of respect. A lot of respect. And since I used to work with McGill University, as as an assistant project manager, so there was a lot of respect because the hierarchy over there, and to get in as a contractor in McGill is very hard. So once you get in, you don't want to lose. So you don't want to scream at the project manager for something that he doesn't know. So we both learn in both directions. So listen, I know that you don't know or not like this, but this is the reality.

[00:22:16.290] - Frédérique

So I'm assuming you learned a lot that way.

[00:22:18.790] - Guy

I learned a lot. It's try and error. Actually, construction is a lot of try and error. Even if it's up to code, there's a try and error because you have to practice. You cannot say, this is the way it has to be done. You're going to do it 10 times, it's going to be 10 times different.

[00:22:36.560] - Frédérique

Every time you need to learn, and things change all the time.

[00:22:40.560] - Guy

Absolutely. The codes change, rules change. Also, city, depending on the city because code is the basic, but city can put more rules on top of the code.

[00:22:54.830] - Frédérique

So it's important to stay informed. And generally, if there's no project manager, then the contractor has to do that job, right?

[00:23:03.710] - Guy

Right, exactly.

[00:23:04.110] - Frédérique

Stay informed.

[00:23:05.190] - Guy

Stay informed. Well, today, there's a legislation. General contractor has to follow some courses, do some courses. I think for a normal, it's 16 hours.

[00:23:19.620] - Frédérique

Sixteen hours, yeah.

[00:23:20.540] - Guy

Yeah, per year.

[00:23:21.560] - Frédérique

To maintain your license.

[00:23:23.060] - Guy

It's not a lot.

[00:23:24.010] - Frédérique

No, it's not a lot.

[00:23:25.040] - Guy

It's not a lot.

[00:23:25.690] - Frédérique

And also it's not regulated on the type of course of I think there's just a certain portion of that that is mandatory for a certain segment, but the rest of the hours can be anything in home improvements.

[00:23:41.170] - Guy

Kind of, yeah. But it got improved

[00:23:45.240] - Frédérique

It's better.

[00:23:45.640] - Guy

As before. Yeah, as we thought. And I did follow because I have my general license, too. We're a team, and everybody that got our license has to follow some courses. And Also, it's within two years. It's not within a year. That's the other thing. So it would be better if it's within a year or more hour within two years, the equivalent of 32 hours, for example.

[00:24:13.470] - Frédérique

But even if it was more hours within two years, everyone would just do it just before the deadline.

[00:24:19.120] - Guy

Absolutely, because they have no time. Yeah absolutely

[00:24:21.650] - Frédérique

It's important to make time, though. I feel like education is key on becoming better as contractors, as project managers, as anything that you do for me. It's marketing. But yeah, education is key.

[00:24:36.470] - Guy

Absolutely. Running after time is not... It means that you're not structured enough. If you're running after your time, And of course, if you got more job because, I don't know, you pad an advertisement, you pass an advertisement, and suddenly everyone is calling you, then you're a victim of your own success.

[00:24:56.970] - Frédérique

What do you do? You hire a project manager.

[00:24:59.380] - Guy

Absolutely. Yeah. An estimator, a project manager, more employee, and then you just grow up as long as the same way that your company is growing up. Not too fast, not too slow, It's just that... And you have to feel comfortable with it. Hire an employee could be a lot on your shoulder if you don't feel comfortable to have someone that you have to pay every week. So as a project manager, for example, Demco has to pay me every week, every year, and then he has to pay an estimator, has to pay employees, so they must have to have a job to come in in. So the role of the entrepreneur or the owner has to get more job coming in. So once you cross the line, it's very hard to go back. But it's doable. You can say, Hey, That's it. I'm going back to my two employees. I'm doing my job myself because it's too much. I tried, and it's not for me.

[00:26:10.940] - Frédérique

And on that subject, what do you see as the main cause for people to go back? Do you see a tendency on contractors that they'll try going into the project management and then they'll go back to smaller jobs?

[00:26:26.820] - Guy

Yeah.

[00:26:27.990] - Frédérique

Do you see a correlation?

[00:26:29.920] - Guy

Absolutely. I have to answer it once. Is there the ability of delegate?

[00:26:36.720] - Frédérique

That's exactly what I was thinking, too. Okay, makes sense.

[00:26:40.000] - Guy

The second one is the weight on your shoulder of paying people, of finding jobs.

[00:26:49.480] - Frédérique

Being responsible for someone's food on their table.

[00:26:51.900] - Guy

Absolutely. That's the two things. Because if you don't sleep because you have an employee and you have to find a job and then it's struggling you, or if you cannot give responsibility to your employees, you're going to struggle because you want it to be on job sites every time, and you won't be able to do estimation or do your

[00:27:17.710] - Frédérique

Or go get new clients.

[00:27:18.680] - Guy

Exactly. So that's the two main things that make a bell, ring a bell. It's going to ring your bell. So thatit's not for you.

[00:27:33.390] - Frédérique

Yeah. And it's not for everyone.

[00:27:34.700] - Guy

It's not for everyone. You love or it's a passion. It should be, I think.

[00:27:41.060] - Frédérique

Should be.

[00:27:41.630] - Guy

I think. I think it should be a passion of doing And me, I do have employees, too. And I love being... Give the chance to them to learn, so give tasks, and show how to do things. And also, I love think that because of me, not because of me, really, but because they are getting paid, because I fund them and employing them.

[00:28:18.680] - Frédérique

And you make them better when you teach them.

[00:28:21.020] - Guy

Absolutely.

[00:28:21.430] - Frédérique

But I think the thing of delegation, and this is completely off topic, but delegation is hard. It's very hard because when you delegate, it will not be done like you would do it.

[00:28:33.530] - Guy

Absolutely not.

[00:28:33.940] - Frédérique

And that you have to be ready for it, and you have to be ready to coach so it gets to at least close enough. So your standards have to go down, and a lot of people have difficulty reducing their standards.

[00:28:46.900] - Guy

Absolutely. So even me, I would say, if I was executing a job, I wouldn't do the same, maybe, on one job to another one. Maybe I would think, Oh, yeah, I prefer this way. Because of this kind of job site, I would do it this way. So regularly my employee says, Well, when I manage project. So the employee is saying, Hey, why didn't you do it like this? Because the other time you said, Do it like this.

[00:29:24.890] - Frédérique

What was your reasoning? Yeah.

[00:29:26.750] - Guy

Why? You always keep changing your mind. No, I'm done changing my mind.

[00:29:32.120] - Frédérique

Adapting. It's called adapting.

[00:29:33.480] - Guy

Adapting. So because they're learning, they want to know, Am I doing right?

[00:29:39.880] - Frédérique

Yeah.

[00:29:40.320] - Guy

No, because every renovation is a different way of thinking. So every job site is a different way of doing things. Of course, plastering is plastering. If you do, for example, it's quite easy. So if you cut half of the wall, so there's an existing wall, and so existing gypsum, and on the bottom because if there's a water damage, for example, and the bottom, you put a new gyps. So it's two different gyps that you have to deal with other than putting two layers of new gyps and do the joint with the normally. So a different way of doing the joint.

[00:30:25.810] - Frédérique

Because you have a different structure.

[00:30:27.660] - Guy

It's a different thought. How the other time you told me this way? Well, yes, because this is different now.

[00:30:35.230] - Frédérique

So explaining your reasoning, making them better, helps for delegation.

[00:30:39.690] - Guy

Absolutely.

[00:30:40.190] - Frédérique

And obviously hiring the right people.

[00:30:42.680] - Guy

Yeah. And in today's world, it's very hard to find the right one. Because of the COVID, I would say, they all start their own business, so either in their innovation or as a project manager or consultant, for example, So they all went by themselves. So they all improvised themselves as...

[00:31:06.800] - Frédérique

Business owners.

[00:31:07.870] - Guy

Yeah. And they think they know everything.

[00:31:11.620] - Frédérique

Yeah, generations.

[00:31:12.730] - Guy

Generations. So I can assume after 25 years of experience, I'm still learning. I'm still learning. Absolutely. And my estimator, for example, he's 70, something. So he has a lot of experience. He told me 40 years of experience, I think.

[00:31:37.420] - Frédérique

That's crazy. Well, it makes sense. From his age, it makes sense. So he's still working, still loving it?

[00:31:41.890] - Guy

He's still loving it, but it doesn't do job anymore, is estimating the job. And he know the quote by heart, more or less. So when I ask questions, I argue with him, of course. But at the end of the day, we come to an agreement. Yes, this is the way we're going to do. This is the floor that we have. Okay, we're going to put this on top of it because structurally, it's going to work. But I argue, we should remove it. No, it's good. We can keep it. All right. We keep it.

[00:32:16.860] - Frédérique

Finding the best methods to work with all of your staff.

[00:32:21.500] - Guy

Absolutely. This is one of the role of a project manager is How do you say that? Like a chef d'orchestre?

[00:32:35.910] - Frédérique

Yes, exactly.

[00:32:37.010] - Guy

So you must...

[00:32:38.450] - Frédérique

Making everything work together.

[00:32:39.600] - Guy

Yeah, absolutely. And with all the different way of thinking also, and juggle with it and say, Okay, this is all it's going to come up of my mouth for the employee, what I'm all getting from the client for the estimator or the owner, listen, you have to do this. And this amount of time, we don't have budget. The estimator says, This is the type of material that we have to install. And the employee says something. I have to manage that, and I have to think about how it's going to come out from my mouth to the employee.

[00:33:17.590] - Frédérique

So it's absorbed, right?

[00:33:18.310] - Guy

Absorbed everything up.

[00:33:19.530] - Frédérique

To make everything keep rolling.

[00:33:22.550] - Guy

Digesting.

[00:33:23.090] - Frédérique

Yeah, digest all the information. You grab everything and then just like, Here's how I communicate it to you, here's how I communicate it to you. So everythning works, you're the coordinator.

[00:33:33.270] - Guy

Coordinator, communicator. Yeah. Communication is the key. Most of the time we are in between two chairs. We're between the client, between the owner, and then we have to manage that, and we have to give information to the employee, so we do the job. So we got pushed on every side. So you have to be tough. You have to be tough to be a project manager because it can drain you up. See, if you don't let go, as I let go, because I'm really calm, I'm really paced.

[00:34:07.920] - Frédérique

Very paced.

[00:34:08.970] - Guy

Yes, I can say that. But it's part of my personality. I can tell that this is something that I really like from me to let it go. It doesn't belong to me. Somebody's telling me something, I digest Is that somebody else does. What's the best thing.

[00:34:32.200] - Frédérique

That could be also, like you were saying, one of the reasons why some contractors will go into having more job sites, having a project manager and all, but then we'll go back to smaller projects because it's hard to live with all of that information and communication and having all of those mouths to feed. That's very difficult, and you need to let it go.

[00:34:58.950] - Guy

You need to let it Yeah, because when you come home, if you keep it in on your mind. Of course, you're still thinking about your job because tomorrow it's another day, and you want to make sure that this day is going to work still.

[00:35:10.450] - Frédérique

Yes, because you're always planning.

[00:35:12.080] - Guy

Absolutely. And you're texting, emailing, whatever, calling everybody, or I forget this. Tomorrow, I need this material because we're at that point. At what time the Rona is opening? So I have to go there. I have to go get the material because at 7: 00, the crew is there and hoping that materials be there. So managing everything up. So usually, it's a fun part for me. The funniest part, I would say, is really the challenge of renovation of housing. And now the new things that came on is the adaptation. It's a new challenge. It's more challengeable because you have to think in advance, all the things that goes behind the wall before putting up the gyps because the adaptation is

[00:36:08.640] - Frédérique

It's not the same thing. It's another level.

[00:36:10.610] - Guy

No, it's another level, pretty much another level. It's like doing commercial thing in renovation, like I said. It's all the rules, but with all the difficulty of renovation.

[00:36:23.320] - Frédérique

It's all the fun stuff.

[00:36:24.920] - Guy

Like you said before. Absolutely.

[00:36:27.880] - Frédérique

All right. Well, thank you very much, Guy, for being here today. And thank you for listening. Watch our next episode.

[00:36:34.990] - Guy

Thank you.

[00:36:35.990] - Ronaldo

So welcome back, everyone. Very, once again, interesting subject as we just listened to Guy talking about project management right after we had the chance of speaking to Frederique, I don't know if you know her, that also spoke to us about project management. But we had the chance now of seeing both sides, which is the brick and the binder, the theory and the the practical side of things. Guy was very interesting when he was talking about how important it is to actually be knowledgeable in your field for the project management to actually make sense. And the differences between, like I said, the theory of project management or the planning aspect as well, versus what happens once you're on the project or the practical side of project management. So All great concepts. I don't know what you thought about it, but

[00:37:32.970] - Frédérique

It was super interesting. Making sure that your project managers know the product or how to build or a little bit of the basics, maybe training your project managers before they actually do their project management. That's an important factor. Yeah super interesting.

[00:37:52.430] - Ronaldo

Yeah, definitely is. So project management, it could apply to the construction world or any other projects, but definitely cool to see it live from a construction work, if I may say. So for other subjects like that that could be or that will be as interesting or even more, please make sure you like, follow, subscribe, and come back for a next episode of Between Bricks and Binders.

[00:38:20.760] - Frédérique

Join us next time. See you